――The general public struggles to keep pace with the rapid progress and increasing complexity of science and technology. In Japan, this is especially true, as the education system typically separates the arts and sciences into distinct tracks. This is where science communicators play a vital role. The tradition at ICU since its foundation has been to offer a liberal arts education incorporating the humanities, social sciences, and natural sciences, an ideal environment for nurturing science communicators. This dialogue began by confirming their role and importance.

Motomura: In 2016, Doshisha University launched the Science Communicator Training Minor Course to cultivate individuals capable of bridging scientific concepts and society. Undergraduates in the Faculty of Life and Medical Sciences, School of Theology, Faculty of Letters, Faculty of Social Sciences, Faculty of Law and Faculty of Economics can take this course. While most universities offer this course at the graduate level, we wanted to offer students with flexible sensibilities the opportunity to learn to think critically and acquire essential skills, while engaging with a broad range of subjects.

Ikoma: At ICU, we believe in the importance of scientific thinking, so we offer interdisciplinary general education courses designed to cultivate this mode of thought. Contemporary society is divided into specialized fields, making it difficult for those with an arts background to grasp scientific lingo, and vice versa. This divide poses a challenge to addressing complex societal issues such as environmental degradation, poverty, and inequality. Solving complex problems requires experts from varied disciplines to connect and collaborate, integrating insights from both the arts and the sciences.

Has our society matured to the extent that we can cope with the accelerated development in science and technology? If not, what do we lack?

Yamazaki: In modern society, we often witness excessive hype around cutting-edge technologies such as quantum computing, my area of expertise, much like the fervor once seen around STAP cells and iPS cells. This enthusiasm can lead to tunnel vision, causing us to overlook inherent risks, what was involved in the course of development, and whether continued advancement is truly warranted. For instance, the current push for scientific solutions to global challenges like climate change aims to build a sustainable world. Yet, I fear blind faith in science may drive excessive resource consumption under the assumption that all technological progress is inherently good and should always move forward.

――Liberal arts is indispensable for literacy in science, its essence being interdisciplinary study across the arts and sciences. But there may be a difference in how this approach is implemented in the U.S. and Japan. What initiatives do Japanese universities offer to foster collaboration between students in the arts and sciences?

Yamazaki: In the U.S., students don't see themselves as fundamentally arts- or science-oriented. Devoid of an embedded culture of division between the arts and sciences, students often study subjects like psychology and biology side by side, or they explore combinations such as physics and philosophy. In contrast, students in Japan are often subtly aware of the divide between the arts and sciences. As a result, many students come to believe they are simply not suited for subjects like mathematics and physics, while others feel that art and music aren't meant for them. At a liberal arts college in the U.S., I studied religion, psychology, history, and physics-while music theory and pottery captivated me for a time. I was fortunate to shape my thinking by connecting insights from courses I chose based on my interests at the time, a freedom that perhaps marks a key distinction between the educational approaches in the U.S. and Japan.

Motomura: Doshisha's science departments are based at the Kyotanabe Campus in southern Kyoto Prefecture, while arts departments are located at the Imadegawa Campus in the heart of Kyoto City. While this separation makes interaction between arts and science students challenging, they come together in the Science Communicator Training Minor Course. In the practicum-based courses, they often find themselves speaking entirely different languages. Arts students struggle to follow scientific terminology, while science students are often surprised by the unexpected insights their arts peers contribute. This divide stems from the cultural separation of disciplines in high school. Yet in college, students gradually begin to understand one another. Through shared coursework, they naturally learn to appreciate diverse perspectives, sharpen their thinking, and communicate ideas in ways that resonate across disciplines.

Yamazaki: At ICU, in the general education Post Human course^*2, faculty from international relations, psychology, and the natural sciences engage in cross-disciplinary dialogue with students. These interactions highlight the richness and excitement of connecting across academic disciplines.

Motomura: That sounds fascinating. It makes me want to take the course myself. I see humans as lifelong learners. Scholars may devote themselves to mastering a specific field, but they are citizens first-and part of the natural world. Outside their area of expertise, they remain amateurs. That doesn't exempt them from engaging with other disciplines. It's essential to show students that learning is a continuous journey, not confined to specialization but enriched by curiosity across all domains.

――Japanese universities often operate in silos, with departments functioning independently. What are the advantages of studying at ICU, where arts and science students intermingle within the liberal arts program?

Motomura: Observing students today, I worry that they are overly conscious of the divide between the arts and sciences, a mindset shaped by being categorized into one or the other during the preparation for college entrance exams. Since they were only required to study subjects relevant to their chosen track, many may assume there's no need to engage with disciplines outside their specialization, leaving little room to explore broader interests. Once they enter university, their next goal often becomes securing a good job. As a result, they focus on what directly supports their job-hunting efforts, while other areas are given lower priority. I tell my students, "I understand how important job-hunting is to you. But you have a long life ahead of you; indeed, many of you will live to see the end of the 21st century. So plan your studies now in a way that will allow you to feel fulfilled when you reach that fin de siècle."

Ikoma: At ICU, some students arrive with a clear sense of what they want to study, while others enroll precisely because they're still exploring, thanks to our flexible system that allows them to choose their major later than at most institutions. With both types of students sharing the same classroom, it's fascinating to see those who seemed firmly set on a particular path uncover unexpected interests along the way.

Yamazaki: In our general education Post Human course that I mentioned earlier, students from diverse majors, ranging from freshmen to seniors, share the same classroom. Younger students are inspired by upperclassmen who venture into unfamiliar territory and enroll in courses they never imagined taking. This is part of the culture at ICU.

Ikoma: The Service Learning^*3 courses at ICU help students develop the skills to navigate and engage with diversity. Students earn academic credit by applying the knowledge they gain in our exceptionally supportive environment to real-world experiences that contribute to society. Many faculty members are actively involved, with programs offered both in Japan and abroad, such as initiatives to build schools in developing countries. Through their experiences at project sites in developing countries, students often find their values challenged and transformed. They also come to realize that progress cannot be achieved through sound arguments alone.

*2..General education Post Human course: Brochures (Japanese ver.)
*3..Service Learning: Learning based on volunteer activities to nurture the ability to contribute to society. By collaborating with others toward a shared goal of addressing societal challenges-and actively participating as if they were stakeholders, students learn to apply their knowledge to real-world problems. This experiential program encourages students to reflect critically on their thoughts and behavior by fostering new perspectives.

――How do we nurture students in higher education when they arrive from secondary schools with a deeply-ingrained vison of a divide between the arts and sciences? Liberal arts education empowers individuals to recognize societal issues as their own and learn through meaningful engagement with the world around them. Given the increasing demand for interdisciplinary competence in a time of uncertainty, what measures do liberal arts colleges take to ensure that arts students gain meaningful exposure to science education?

Ikoma: We regard mathematical and scientific literacy, such as the ability to read statistics, as essential in navigating the complexities of modern life. In addition to the introduction of a MEXT-approved LAMDA (Mathematics, Data Science and AI Education in Liberal Arts) program, we offer ICU-style courses that go beyond simply delivering knowledge. For example, a course co-taught by faculty specializing in information science or mathematics and social science focuses on interpreting statistics in real-world contexts. It emphasizes the importance of applying foundational maths and science skills to practical, societal issues.

Yamazaki: In the natural science major at ICU, students can choose to study engineering after building a foundation in pure science. Those who develop a background in the natural sciences, then choose to explore technology, often continue their studies in graduate schools, either at ICU or at other institutions in Japan and abroad. My undergraduate quantum theory students have pursued research in aerospace engineering in the U.K. or at the Atmosphere and Ocean Research Institute at the University of Tokyo, building on their grounding in physics.

Motomura: Your students have nurtured careers in diverse domains. Building a strong foundation in the fundamentals of science and then advancing to deeper studies, armed with a broad perspective, is an essential model for learning. As science continues to shape society in increasingly profound ways, the competence and awareness of scientific leaders will become ever more critical. In simple terms, honoring nature with humility is vital; we need to be aware of the fact that we are always acting under the grace of something far greater than ourselves. Relying on a sense of omnipotence derived from success in a narrow field can lead to failure, especially when achievement is measured solely in comparison to others.

Yamazaki: The adverse effects of science have grown as technologies have become increasingly globalized and widely disseminated. Scientific knowledge alone is insufficient to address the complex problems that arise when science is applied by humans in society. Without the lens of the humanities and social sciences, we may not even recognize what the real issues are. This underscores why institutions like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) integrate the humanities and social sciences into their curriculum. ICU's approach is very similar. Studying science alone will no longer be enough: we must also nurture broader viewpoints to fully grasp its impact on society.

*4..The Club of Rome: A global think tank based in Switzerland.
*5.. Institute of Statistical Mathematics (ISM): Attitudes Toward Life and the Environment 2.5 Man and Nature
Here are three opinions about man and nature. Which one of these do you think is closest to the truth?
1. In order to be happy, man must follow nature (follow nature)
2. In order to be happy, man must make use of nature (make use of nature)
3. In order to be happy, man must conquer nature (conquer nature)

――Discussions around the educational bridge between secondary and higher education have gained momentum, especially after MEXT emphasized the importance of collaborative projects between high schools and universities. Although current screening methods often draw criticism, solutions may emerge through a deeper exploration of the essence of education. What challenges exist in helping high school students integrate science meaningfully into their lives?

Motomura: While objectivity is a cornerstone of scientific inquiry, science education doesn't have to begin there; it can start with subjectivity. For example, Professor Toshitaka Hidaka describes how his fascination with nature began in childhood in his essay Why Do Butterflies Fly? As a boy, he observed a small white butterfly, a familiar visitor to his garden, and traced its movements with quiet curiosity, wondering where it came from and where it would go. Through this simple act of observation, he came to understand the butterfly's ecology—not through dry facts one might expect from Chat GPT, but through a deeply personal inquiry rooted in subjective experience. Are such engaging and exploratory science classes happening across Japan? This may help explain why so many students are losing interest in the subject.

Yamazaki: Science education in Japan tends to progress at a much faster pace than in the U.S., continuing this intensity through high school and into university. In the U.S., students often enter graduate school without having studied advanced physics beforehand, as many begin exploring the subject during college. This approach allows genuine interest to develop and helps prevent the academic fatigue that can result from being forced to study a subject. In Japan, we might consider adopting a more flexible approach: the curriculum often feels overloaded, leaving little room for genuine engagement.

Motomura: The Curriculum Guidelines seem designed to promote broad but shallow learning, primarily to prepare students for college entrance exams. Underlying this approach is a presumptuous notion: "To cultivate individuals capable of leading Japan as a scientific nation, they must master specific content by a certain age." As not all students will follow the same path, this rigid framework risks prioritizing uniformity over genuine curiosit

Yamazaki: This kind of cramming fails to cultivate the essential skills and mindset needed to become a capable researcher. As a postdoctoral fellow, I worked at national universities such as Osaka University, Kyoto University and the University of Tokyo. The top 10 to 20% of students were engaging in exceptionally advanced research at each. The similarity of these figures indicates that the aptitude assessed in entrance exams may bear little relation to a student's true potential for research. What stood out in those who became exceptional researchers was their keen ability to notice subtle details. They weren't merely hard workers or academic grinds; they were intuitive thinkers who made discoveries while in a relaxed, reflective state of mind. High school students often ask me what they should do after being accepted to university through early-decision recommendations. They've been working so hard, and so I tell them to have fun in the woods, where they can observe fallen branches in unexpected places, leaves and bugs. This is a source of insight. I often wonder why this kind of instruction is so rare in science education. By skipping experiential learning and focusing solely on facts, we deny students the opportunity to cultivate the vital skill of observation.

Ikoma: I'm well aware of the negative impact of the preparation for entrance exams in Japan. Cramming vast amounts of information leaves little room for free thinking and exploration. General admissions at ICU^*6 is unique: it invites students to think independently and creatively. Yet many shy away from it, saying they don't know how to prepare. When I tell them preparation isn't necessary in the conventional sense, they react with trepidation. This reveals how detrimental the culture of cramming is to the current education system.

*6..General admissions at ICU: The entrance examination is not the typical sort of general admissions test. It consists of three main parts: an interdisciplinary test, with a choice between humanities/social sciences or mathematics and science/natural sciences; the Aptitude for Liberal Arts (ATLAS), for which students listen to a short lecture and answer questions about its content; and an English language test. The exam assesses students' readiness for liberal arts education.

――To conclude the discussion, the three explored how universities can nurture young people who will shape the future of the world.

Yamazaki: I believe there is great value in faculty and young students collaborating in education and research. While faculty bring experience and expertise, their radar may not be as finely tuned to change. Younger students observe society closely and think deeply about emerging social and environmental shifts. Their insights can be remarkably sharp. It's essential that we listen to, and learn from, them, embracing their perspectives to enrich our collective understanding and to drive meaningful progress. I believe the true purpose of education is to help students recognize and embrace what they genuinely find meaningful. Rather than simply teaching, we should collaborate with them, by offering methodologies that nurture their ability to observe and interpret the world through their own thoughtful perspectives.

Ikoma: Our goal at ICU is to nurture students who will strive to change the world-not for personal gain or economic success alone, but for the well-being of society and the planet as a whole. In this pursuit, science offers an indispensable lens: we aim to convey the value of science thoughtfully and skillfully.